mibuso.com

Dear Microsoft,

Short version: please keep Classic for NAV7. Just for old clients, no need to sell new licences of it.

Long version:

Right, of course the new customers won't need it. But you have customers who are using NAV since 10-15 years, have a metric ton of developments made. Given that everybody knows your support strategy is 2 major versions back and NAV6Classic will be supported until NAV8, they could decide to upgrade to RTC during NAV6 or wait for NAV7. Waiting for NAV7 might sound a bit brash but not an irresponsible decision since NAV6Classic will be supported until NAV8 comes out, so at least 2 years after NAV7. The advantage of upgrading to NAV6RTC would have been gradual upgrade, one role at a time. The advantage of waiting until NAV7 is the non-crazy report designer i.e. actually handling data hierarchies.

The best solution for everybody would be the ability to do a gradual RTC upgrade with NAV7. Hence the continued support of Classic would be necessary.

It won't cost you much. You need to support NAV6Classic anyway, so you just set a bit to let that client work with a NAV7 database, even if we lose some new menu items or fields introduced in NAV7 or suchlike it is not big deal, we can customize that back if needed.

+1

First step for most old customers is to transfer to the SQL client. So forms and old reports must be supported for those customers. Next step can be RTC client with new reports. I think those steps must be done in sequence and not at the same time.

There has to be a cutoff point somewhere, and this is it. The statement of directions has been out for years, including when the classic client would be discontinued. If you are not prepared for it, that is because you refused to plan ahead for it.

Im talking about the current customers not being ready. They spend a lot of money for customizations in NAV 3,4,5. They want to go to the next step (SQL) but keep the customizations. There won't be such an option in NAV 7,8,9, etc. So instead of thinking which partner to use, they expand their request and look for which ERP to use.

What is the problem with moving to sql and NAV 7 at the same time?

If we pretend for a moment that it is possible to keep the classic client for NAV 7 (which Microsoft says it is not), I would argue that most of those same customers will STILL not be ready when NAV 8 comes out. Are you going to suggest another postponement?

The graduate scenario you are describing is what we currently have with NAV6 (2009).

Hi Rashed,

doing a migration from NAV classic (native) to NAV7 is akin to a "big bang" roll-out project. Usually it's pretty painful. Not the least because the customer expects the "new" to being "better" as in "faster" and "more efficient", and not "barely being able to do its job" and "far more expensive to do a customization". The former will be quoted to you by every power user of the classic client. Trying to manage expectations before would bring its own problems, they will ask you "why fix what's not broken?" and they are spot on. Having dealt with this RDLC nonsense for two years now, I'm sure I would try to avoid it like hell. I simply don't recommend this type of project to my customers. I am on both sides (customer and vendor), and I am not happy. Although the NAV2013 beta looks better than I expected... which is good. It's getting less painful to use it
Like mdPartnerNL said: When confronted with the choices available, searching for alternative solutions (i.e., non-MS ERP) is a viable option. And I doubt that my customers are dumb people... depending on the level of execution, they smell a scam a long way off. And that's how they feel about it.

with best regards

Jens

It looks like Microsoft Europe is not doing a good job of getting partners up to speed on RTC.

For us, in the US, users looking at RTC have been pretty well received. They do understand the impact they will have on productivity in the short run, however, they also understand it's the relationship with their partner that will make or break the upgrade.

Oh, for the record, I still think the RDLC reporting sucks.

Some people are always resistant to change. I still have old customers running on an obsolete Cobol package that someone else primarily supports. It is a good package except for all the things it cannot do and will never do without a huge amount of effort - and the list keeps growing longer.
As technology and products keep evolving, ERP software needs to keep evolving too or become increasingly useless.
The other problem happens when the pool of NAV professionals who know the old technology diminishes and there are not enough left to service all these old installs.
Microsoft has taken a path that binds everything closer to the Microsoft "stack" (stack of money). No surprise here.
The client will (hopefully) work in 3 different environments which provides more flexibility (devices) and less flexibility (display). This is why Apple has so carefully controlled its platforms - to protect the user experience.
NAV will lose old customers along the way and gain new ones.
Back to the future was a movie - not real life - the past is not coming back.

Look, the first rule of IT is you never use the first version of anything because normally it is not finished, or at least not for an existing client who is used to the higher quality of the previous product, maybe only for an adventurous new client. And indeed it was not finished, so it is not just prejudice It is no criticism, it is impossible to finish a product without feedback from the users, it was obvious that the idea is that they get a lot of complaints for NAV6 and then NAV7 will be great. And it exactly happened so.

No, only resistant to change until the product is finished. Resistant to be something like a beta tester. NAV6RTC was basically an unfinished beta because it is not possible to finish a product with enough user feedback, and NAV7 is the real RTC product. This is what is safe and stable enough to start transition to.

It's a misunderstanding, Alex. It was not failing to learn it but outright REJECTING it by power users, by add-on developers, by everybody who matters because obviously it is was not finished, stable, customizable enough for the common requirements and production ready. The overwhelming mood of just about everyone I know about NAV6RTC was "nice beta, let's wait for the real product". It came accross as a typical Axapta: very high-tech but risky, unstable, moving too fast.

Even with NAV7 I figure there will be difficulties with the user acceptance. I mean for example a lot of companies have their invoice etc. forms customized so that the layout looks more or less exactly like the printout, because people think of an invoice as a paper document and not an accounting transaction and thus consider the form as the entry of the paper document, and thus having different layouts confuses them. They will hate to lose this.

Or those companies who have their quotes with a red background, order yellow, invoice green, because users forget where they are. (Although this one I think we will be able to solve so it is just an annoyance and extra cost.)

I've implemented and upgraded to the RTC and I've been using NAV7 for a while now for my own accounting.

From an enduser perspective, to be 100% honest, there is almost no difference between NAV6 and NAV7. It's like upgrading from one classic client to the other.

The only thing that really hit me while implementing NAV6 was the initial performance. This was much better with R2. NAV7 will completely solve that.

RDLC is just something that you need to get used to.