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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to Microsoft from a NAV Consultant since
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:16 pm 
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Mark Brummel wrote:
I've implemented and upgraded to the RTC and I've been using NAV7 for a while now for my own accounting.

From an enduser perspective, to be 100% honest, there is almost no difference between NAV6 and NAV7. It's like upgrading from one classic client to the other.

The only thing that really hit me while implementing NAV6 was the initial performance. This was much better with R2. NAV7 will completely solve that.

RDLC is just something that you need to get used to.
Mark Brummel wrote:
I've implemented and upgraded to the RTC and I've been using NAV7 for a while now for my own accounting.

From an enduser perspective, to be 100% honest, there is almost no difference between NAV6 and NAV7. It's like upgrading from one classic client to the other.

The only thing that really hit me while implementing NAV6 was the initial performance. This was much better with R2. NAV7 will completely solve that.

RDLC is just something that you need to get used to.


Holy cow! So you mean they did not bring back the double-F2 quick revalidation for example? I thought that is for example one thing everybody is raising a lot of noise about, as this is something very often needed... or date abbreviations on request pages, which is again something everybody is using daily?


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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to Microsoft from a NAV Consultant since
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:31 am 
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Come on, I really do hope that you don't teach end users to use F2. That's not something that they should do. The software should just work.

As a consultant the simple workaround is to cut-and-paste the value. So CTRL-X & CTRL-V and you revalidate.

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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to Microsoft from a NAV Consultant since
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:05 pm 
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Oh dear, I can hear the tsunami of NAV Consultants since 1.3 joining in!

I guess you might miss the '?' feature on any Text field too?

:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to Microsoft from a NAV Consultant since
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:25 pm 
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It is not your grandfather's Navision any more.
It is never coming back.

There are companies running very old NAV that may never upgrade to the new version - maybe their next move is to Quickbooks.
20 years ago there was not that much choice for small companies, now there is.
NAV is now positioned as a large small to mid market package which means we will be losing some of the long time base who really need a small business package at small business prices.
Microsoft tried to make small business versions of GP and NAV a few years ago and failed.

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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to Microsoft from a NAV Consultant since
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:56 pm 
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CTRL-X & CTRL-V and you revalidate would be ok, for the date we need to wait. What I don't like is that the Forms and Reports are going away (for older customers). The new RDLC looks so much better then Classic Reports but the Page objects are missing some options compared to Forms.

For new customers I don't think these are problematic.


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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to Microsoft from a NAV Consultant since
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:23 pm 
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sendit2jason wrote:
Oh dear, I can hear the tsunami of NAV Consultants since 1.3 joining in!

I guess you might miss the '?' feature on any Text field too?

:roll:


1.1... :mrgreen:

Yes, I do miss the '?' feature... this is something I teach endusers.

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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to Microsoft from a NAV Consultant since
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:54 am 
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Miklos Hollender wrote:
Holy cow! So you mean they did not bring back the double-F2 quick revalidation for example?


Nope, and worse, we also lost navigating through fields with your arrow keys...
It's an ERP solution in some kind of a web browser!!! :lol:

But there is hope! There are all kinds of clients popping out of the ground. Windows, SharePoint, Web...

Maybe somebody is working on a data entry client...

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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to Microsoft from a NAV Consultant since
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:57 pm 
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But why can't a RTC client visit codeunit 1 anymore for text, date, etc validation? I always thought that visiting it after validation of a table field was too much but from a form/page field should be mandetory...

Going from field to field with TAB, s-TAB is easier to implement. But what is the replacement for ctrl-down/up? Shouldn't the RTC give comparable functionallity to the classic client before cancelling all forms. If not, then excuse me but I know customers who will skip 2013 as they did with 2009.


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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to Microsoft from a NAV Consultant since
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:40 am 
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mdPartnerNL wrote:
But why can't a RTC client visit codeunit 1 anymore for text, date, etc validation? I always thought that visiting it after validation of a table field was too much but from a form/page field should be mandetory...

Going from field to field with TAB, s-TAB is easier to implement. But what is the replacement for ctrl-down/up? Shouldn't the RTC give comparable functionallity to the classic client before cancelling all forms. If not, then excuse me but I know customers who will skip 2013 as they did with 2009.


If the customer is as flexible in his business area as he is in adapting to new technology, he might not be a customer very long.

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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to Microsoft from a NAV Consultant since
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:09 pm 
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reijermolenaar wrote:
It's an ERP solution in some kind of a web browser!!!

In other words, an ERP solution in a type of interface that most people are used to. Again, standardizing the look and feel across all of their products. I don't see this as a bad thing.

As you say, though, there are multiple clients for NAV: Web, Sharepoint, RTC. And those are out of the box. The ability to build your own, for any device, is a huge plus in my mind.

mdPartnerNL wrote:
Going from field to field with TAB, s-TAB is easier to implement. But what is the replacement for ctrl-down/up? Shouldn't the RTC give comparable functionallity to the classic client before cancelling all forms.


I hear a lot of people say this. Maybe it is different in other countries, but most users I deal with in the US don't know the shortcut keys. They are not losing functionality or speed. I would honestly say less than five percent, and I still think I might be being generous. Everyone knows F3 and F4, but past that...well. There will always be power users who are lightning fast on the keyboard, but the reality is that that is not the majority of the NAV user base. It's not a huge loss.

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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to Microsoft from a NAV Consultant since
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:41 pm 
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I agree, for most end users this interface is better. It's much more intuitive, shorter learning curve, etc. As long as you don't have to do heavy data entry... I've seen a couple of customers that never can go to the RTC because of this.

Beside of the impact for customers there is the fun factor in development. After a day developing in the RTC I'm exhausted. Frustration all day long. But that may improve in future releases.

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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to Microsoft from a NAV Consultant since
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:12 pm 
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reijermolenaar wrote:
I agree, for most end users this interface is better. It's much more intuitive, shorter learning curve, etc. As long as you don't have to do heavy data entry... I've seen a couple of customers that never can go to the RTC because of this.

I've seen once a customer for which sales order line entry was so heavy duty that not even the standard form could do.
They had a special form in which they entered the item no., quantity and sometimes the price. They had their left-hand on the F3 key and with the right the used the numeric keypad.
I saw them and they were able to insert about 1 record per second! After some records, they stopped, controlled for typing errors and went on. Just incredible!


So for your heavy data entry-users you might create some C# application that communicates with NAV webservices or some other system. The new NAV is so open that there are a lot of ways you can use to interact with it.

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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to Microsoft from a NAV Consultant since
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:32 pm 
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reijermolenaar wrote:
Beside of the impact for customers there is the fun factor in development. After a day developing in the RTC I'm exhausted. Frustration all day long. But that may improve in future releases.


Sounds like me when I started NAV back in 1999 and it worked out just fine.

I have high hopes with RTC. The only thing they need to work on is the RDLC reporting interface so the end user can do some modifications to the reports on their own.

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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to Microsoft from a NAV Consultant since
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:49 pm 
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There are still companies selling 80s vintage software (Cromenco emulation on IBM AIX!) - this one floored me; 90s vintage software (RealWorld Cobol); 2000s (Visual Accountmate Foxpro).
The problem for the above VARs is the overall sales are decreasing and the future is grim.
If we want to be around and growing in the 2020s, we have to keep changing with the times.
NAV has fallen behind in feature upgrades the last few years. Hopefully once we are on a "single" main platform, the focus will be on adding more functionality.

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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to Microsoft from a NAV Consultant since
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:47 pm 
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davmac1 wrote:
There are still companies selling 80s vintage software (Cromenco emulation on IBM AIX!) - this one floored me; 90s vintage software (RealWorld Cobol); 2000s (Visual Accountmate Foxpro).
The problem for the above VARs is the overall sales are decreasing and the future is grim.
If we want to be around and growing in the 2020s, we have to keep changing with the times.
NAV has fallen behind in feature upgrades the last few years. Hopefully once we are on a "single" main platform, the focus will be on adding more functionality.


Where is the like button?

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